22 thoughts on “On line at Office Depot, see what I see”
@ Aninha google is your friend
@ rain although I don’t disagree that there a lowest common denominator in American and Japanese society with regard to “mindless crap,” you must admit that you’d have an easier time finding strong female characters in Japanese anime than in American animation.
@ margot nice that you want them to be mainstream, but for that to happen, they have to sell. And for them to sell, you have to look and buy.
My point is: why is it so important that girls are invisible in western animation if it’s not only western animation that you can acess? Besides, shouldn’t we expect things to change once more and more girls start becoming fans of works from other countries? I mean, girls make up a lot of the cash all these movies excluding girls make, as they shift to other movies that don’t exclude them, filmmakers will make less and eventually realise they need to give female characters more than a marginal place if their filmsif they are to make money. After that, girls being invisible won’t happen anymore, not in the scale it currently does.
I sincerely want your opinion on this, I consider you generally have good arguments.
I never thought the world focused so much on american movies, don’t you think that’s more of a way hollywood promotes themselves rather than how it really goes?
Winx Club: The Secret of the Lost Kingdom
Bloom will stop at nothing to find her birth parents. On a magical journey that takes her to a strange planet with evil lurking around every corner, Bloom will learn to trust her true friends… and herself.
Winx Club: 3d magical adventure
“I’m more insulted that the classic Looney Tunes characters have now been reduced to bad TV show spinoffs and ugly looking merchandise then there being no Looney Tunes female characters.”
That doesn’t surprise me, and I’m positive no one else. Margot is pointing out how girls are basically an invisible minority in the western animated world, not especifically asking for new female characters in classic old shows. Nothing’s bad about there being a majority of male characters in any of these shows, what’s bad is that they acumulate to a huge predominance of male characters over female characters.
There’s something I wanted to ask Margot for some time now: Margot, would you tell me why do you think this invisibility of girls is so bad given it seems to be an exclusive of western animated media?
If you search for female characters in anime for example, you’ll find them aplenty, there are several sub-genres to shojo, there are women and girls on all types of different genres, doing all types of things. You’d have no dificulty I bet, to find terror, comedy,action, adventure, drama and so many others with girls, and that’s gotta be one of the reasons so many girls like to cosplay and love japanese animation.
My question is: why bother with a media that excludes girls if so many others include them? Why not shift to another media instead of trying to find scraps and bones?
Exactly. The Anime (Japanese animation) market in the U.S. alone is approximately $4.35 BILLION annually. Contrast that with Pixar, whose films have made only $7 billion TOTAL over its years of existence. Strong female characters are one of the hallmarks of Anime. Girls aren’t the exception; they’re the rule. The market is there. You just have to look for it.
As an comics/animation fan who lived and worked in Japan for years, I hate to tell you that this simply isn’t true. Perhaps the animation that makes it to the United States has some strong female characters, but everyday children’s cartoons in Japan are as mindless as those in the U.S., and strong female characters are hardly a hallmark 🙁
I’m not surprised by your comment at all. I don’t know much about anime. I like Miyazaki but even people in America dont know who he is. There are no dolls or toys or games or LEGO sets that I’ve seen.
“Anime”? Psssshhh. Europe is the place to go for animated films featuring strong female leads. A lot of “anime”, with the exception of Miyazaki, who is a feminist, is pretty demeaning and sexualized toward women (and men too!). They’re more like the States then a lot of “anime” fans want to admit.
“Pesepolis” (Caution: Not for Kids), “Triplets of Belleville” (Caution: Not for Kids), “The Illusionist” (by the same guy who did Triplets), “A Cat in Paris”,”Chico and Rita” (Caution: ABSOLUTELY NOT for Kids), and “The Secret of Kells” are all great European films featuring strong female (AND male) characters.
And they aren’t “kiddie” films either even though some of them are fine for kids to watch. The Europeans really seem to “get” the whole animation thing. They see the potential it has for visual storytelling and the advantage it has over live action in that aspect.
And they don’t consist of just two original drawings either like a lot of “anime” does.
Miyazaki is great, don’t get me wrong, but if you want fluid Disney quality animation with great stories, Europe is the place to go.
These may not be “mainstream” here in America, but who the hell cares? They’re still awesome movies.
Personally, even though I’m a big (classic) Disney and Pixar fan, I’m more interested in the next film by Sylvain Chomet (“Triplets”), then I am in the next film by Disney.
A saw “A Cat in Paris” at the Florida Film Festival last week and was blown away not only by the quality of the animation, but by the quality of the STORY and the CHARACTERS.
No pop songs, no stupid jokes, no stereotypical in your face tough girls tacked on “for da girlz” that smack around the stereotypical idiot male lead to tell the audience how “strong and independent” she is (what kind of message does THAT send to little girls??!).
Reading what problems you have with American animation these days Margot, I think you and your daughters would find this to be a HUGE breath of fresh air. I know I did.
P.S.
Another good one featuring strong female lead is “Mary and Max”. It’s from Australia, not Europe so I didn’t include it in my list. It’s on Netflix though so check it out! A word of warning, it’s by no means a “kid’s film”. It’s more in the vein of “Triplets of Belleville” or “Persepolis” content wise and it touches on some really deep issues.
Thete never was much female representation in those cartoon characters. Only female doubles or girlfriends of the boys. Although I am suspicious that Tweety might be a girl.
Nothing is wrong with “a” girl having a Tasmanian Devil flashdrive. There is something very wrong with female characters being invisible or represented as a tiny, stereotyped minority in imaginary world.
What Looney Tunes characters are female? Name one besides Granny and that Lola Bunny abomination that was invented for Space Jam.
I’m more insulted that the classic Looney Tunes characters have now been reduced to bad TV show spinoffs and ugly looking merchandise then there being no Looney Tunes female characters. You don’t screw with the classic cartoon characters. You just don’t.
@ Aninha google is your friend
@ rain although I don’t disagree that there a lowest common denominator in American and Japanese society with regard to “mindless crap,” you must admit that you’d have an easier time finding strong female characters in Japanese anime than in American animation.
@ margot nice that you want them to be mainstream, but for that to happen, they have to sell. And for them to sell, you have to look and buy.
Lol, kind of an ignorant response, but ok. I hoped you had a trustful website where you found the information, but whatever. 😉
I think you’d like Cardcaptor Sakura. Watch it subbed though, they edited a lot in the dubbing, including romantic relationships between same sex people, and the entirety of 31 episodes. Guess what else? They also aired it as Cardcaptors to hide the female lead.http://www.amazon.com/Cardcaptor-Sakura-Complete-Episodes-Sealed/dp/B0056D5TY8/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1334497316&sr=1-1
The Triplets of Belleville
I love that one
“I really think so, that’s how it goes. Everyone knows who Michael Jackson, Madonna, Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie etc.”
Ok, you’re right. 🙂 I didn’t thought about it very well. Anyway, if you see anything I recommended, tell me what you think about it, all right?
My point is: why is it so important that girls are invisible in western animation if it’s not only western animation that you can acess? Besides, shouldn’t we expect things to change once more and more girls start becoming fans of works from other countries? I mean, girls make up a lot of the cash all these movies excluding girls make, as they shift to other movies that don’t exclude them, filmmakers will make less and eventually realise they need to give female characters more than a marginal place if their filmsif they are to make money. After that, girls being invisible won’t happen anymore, not in the scale it currently does.
I sincerely want your opinion on this, I consider you generally have good arguments.
Hi Aninha,
The whole world looks to western animation, specifically America, for “culture,” that is Hollywood. The world is obsessed with American movies.
I agree these movie sfeaturing strong girls from around the world should be highlighted and promoted. Keep sending them!
MM
I never thought the world focused so much on american movies, don’t you think that’s more of a way hollywood promotes themselves rather than how it really goes?
Winx Club: The Secret of the Lost Kingdom
Bloom will stop at nothing to find her birth parents. On a magical journey that takes her to a strange planet with evil lurking around every corner, Bloom will learn to trust her true friends… and herself.
Winx Club: 3d magical adventure
Hi Aninha,
I really think so, that’s how it goes. Everyone knows who Michael Jackson, Madonna, Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie etc.
MM
“I’m more insulted that the classic Looney Tunes characters have now been reduced to bad TV show spinoffs and ugly looking merchandise then there being no Looney Tunes female characters.”
That doesn’t surprise me, and I’m positive no one else. Margot is pointing out how girls are basically an invisible minority in the western animated world, not especifically asking for new female characters in classic old shows. Nothing’s bad about there being a majority of male characters in any of these shows, what’s bad is that they acumulate to a huge predominance of male characters over female characters.
There’s something I wanted to ask Margot for some time now: Margot, would you tell me why do you think this invisibility of girls is so bad given it seems to be an exclusive of western animated media?
If you search for female characters in anime for example, you’ll find them aplenty, there are several sub-genres to shojo, there are women and girls on all types of different genres, doing all types of things. You’d have no dificulty I bet, to find terror, comedy,action, adventure, drama and so many others with girls, and that’s gotta be one of the reasons so many girls like to cosplay and love japanese animation.
My question is: why bother with a media that excludes girls if so many others include them? Why not shift to another media instead of trying to find scraps and bones?
Exactly. The Anime (Japanese animation) market in the U.S. alone is approximately $4.35 BILLION annually. Contrast that with Pixar, whose films have made only $7 billion TOTAL over its years of existence. Strong female characters are one of the hallmarks of Anime. Girls aren’t the exception; they’re the rule. The market is there. You just have to look for it.
Hi tfurious,
I don’t want to “go look for” strong females. I want them to be mainstream.
MM
Where did you found this information about anime’s and pixar’s us profits?
As an comics/animation fan who lived and worked in Japan for years, I hate to tell you that this simply isn’t true. Perhaps the animation that makes it to the United States has some strong female characters, but everyday children’s cartoons in Japan are as mindless as those in the U.S., and strong female characters are hardly a hallmark 🙁
Hi Rain,
I’m not surprised by your comment at all. I don’t know much about anime. I like Miyazaki but even people in America dont know who he is. There are no dolls or toys or games or LEGO sets that I’ve seen.
MM
“Anime”? Psssshhh. Europe is the place to go for animated films featuring strong female leads. A lot of “anime”, with the exception of Miyazaki, who is a feminist, is pretty demeaning and sexualized toward women (and men too!). They’re more like the States then a lot of “anime” fans want to admit.
“Pesepolis” (Caution: Not for Kids), “Triplets of Belleville” (Caution: Not for Kids), “The Illusionist” (by the same guy who did Triplets), “A Cat in Paris”,”Chico and Rita” (Caution: ABSOLUTELY NOT for Kids), and “The Secret of Kells” are all great European films featuring strong female (AND male) characters.
And they aren’t “kiddie” films either even though some of them are fine for kids to watch. The Europeans really seem to “get” the whole animation thing. They see the potential it has for visual storytelling and the advantage it has over live action in that aspect.
And they don’t consist of just two original drawings either like a lot of “anime” does.
Miyazaki is great, don’t get me wrong, but if you want fluid Disney quality animation with great stories, Europe is the place to go.
These may not be “mainstream” here in America, but who the hell cares? They’re still awesome movies.
Personally, even though I’m a big (classic) Disney and Pixar fan, I’m more interested in the next film by Sylvain Chomet (“Triplets”), then I am in the next film by Disney.
A saw “A Cat in Paris” at the Florida Film Festival last week and was blown away not only by the quality of the animation, but by the quality of the STORY and the CHARACTERS.
No pop songs, no stupid jokes, no stereotypical in your face tough girls tacked on “for da girlz” that smack around the stereotypical idiot male lead to tell the audience how “strong and independent” she is (what kind of message does THAT send to little girls??!).
Reading what problems you have with American animation these days Margot, I think you and your daughters would find this to be a HUGE breath of fresh air. I know I did.
P.S.
Another good one featuring strong female lead is “Mary and Max”. It’s from Australia, not Europe so I didn’t include it in my list. It’s on Netflix though so check it out! A word of warning, it’s by no means a “kid’s film”. It’s more in the vein of “Triplets of Belleville” or “Persepolis” content wise and it touches on some really deep issues.
Thete never was much female representation in those cartoon characters. Only female doubles or girlfriends of the boys. Although I am suspicious that Tweety might be a girl.
Hi Pam,
What do you think about Road Runner?
MM
What’s wrong with a girl having a tasmanian devil flash drive?
Hi Olga,
Nothing is wrong with “a” girl having a Tasmanian Devil flashdrive. There is something very wrong with female characters being invisible or represented as a tiny, stereotyped minority in imaginary world.
MM
What Looney Tunes characters are female? Name one besides Granny and that Lola Bunny abomination that was invented for Space Jam.
I’m more insulted that the classic Looney Tunes characters have now been reduced to bad TV show spinoffs and ugly looking merchandise then there being no Looney Tunes female characters. You don’t screw with the classic cartoon characters. You just don’t.